Nick Love talks to FootballCasual.com....
Below is an interview with writer/director Nick Love. His films include 'Goodbye Charlie Bright', 'The Football Factory', 'The Business', and 'Outlaw'. Nick speaks to us about the forthcoming film 'The Firm' as well his interest and fascination with the 80's casual scene...
Thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule to answer a few questions Nick. Like me you grew up in South East London, what first brought your attention to the subculture commonly known as 'casual' and what got you hooked?
The first time I saw someone dressed in casual wear was around 1983, when I was no more than 13 years old, sitting round the flats in Thames Street which is on the Greenwich/Deptford border. One of the older boys (now sadly dead) walked up smoking a joint and wearing a full electric blue Ellesse tracksuit, a deerstalker hat and a pair of Diadora borg elites. He looked the bollocks and I so wanted to be like him. He went to Millwall and was one of the chaps. From then on it became an obsession for me. I saw more and more boys at football wearing Italian sportswear (Fila, Sergio Tacchini and so on) - and finally I got a Lacoste t-shirt and that's were it started - I never looked back!
You've written and directed a number of cult films such as 'Goodbye Charlie Bright', 'The Football Factory', 'The Business' and 'Outlaw' - all of which have some link to the football scene. How much of an influence do you think football and terrace fashion for that matter, has on the working classes both now and say 25 years ago?
Certainly all of my film work has been influenced by the casual/terrace/football culture. I was an adolescent at the time of the casuals and I've always believed that your teenage years are when you are most receptive to cultural/fashion influences. I remember men in their 20's telling me I looked like a fucking idiot in Fila BJ shorts and t-shirts when I was 14 or 15, and that's because in their teens they'd worn flares and big collared shirts, so they couldn't see beyond what had influenced them. You can only really understand that in retrospect because when you're in the middle of a revolution (which is what I thought the casual movement was), you can't imagine there's an other way of life. Clearly the casual clothing and general 80's fashion had a huge impact on my film-making as it's now appeared in two of my films. 'The Business' being the first were it was simply the fashion of the time for the main character Frankie, and now with 'The Firm' where the clothes are almost a driving force behind part of the film, where having the right clothes is an intrinsic part of the story. Fashion plays a part in all my films (apart from 'Outlaw'), as I'm very militant about having the right clothes for the era/mood of the film. Incidentally, I think men's fashion for the working classes/terrace fans, has lost it's way a bit in the past few years. I loved the early Stone Island and CP Company stuff, but it all seems a bit similar to me now. There was a time where fashion was about standing out and making a statement - now it seems about blending in and not being noticed. It's probably just my age!
It's obvious you have a passion for the tennis chic sportswear era of casual culture, is this for you a historical fashion interest or were you just as passionate in your youth?
Tennis wear chic was an absolute passion when I was a teenager. It's not something I picked up later in life, and then became a retrospective fan. For me it was a way of life. I could bore you with a very long story about how I got my first Lacoste t-shirt (red and white stripes), but it's a whole new interview! Suffice to say I was deep into the whole thing between 82 and 85. Me and my mates were always buzzing around the west end, stealing gear out of Nick-Nacks, Lilywhites and Olympus etc. We lived and breathed Fila, Tacchini, Ellesse, Pringle, Lyle & Scott, Diadora (I could go on forever!). When we were kids you simply had to have the right clobber. You were a pikey if you didn't - end of.
It's commonly accepted that Londoners were late to the casual scene, but many Londoners hold the belief that it was them that took the look forward from Peter Storm cagoules and adidas trainers. What's your view on how the scene developed in London in the early 80's?
This is subjective because as I said earlier, everyone who's involved in a revolution can't see beyond their point of view - nothing exists beyond the wall. But it's fair to say, that although Londoners (me included) thought they were the centre of the universe, there weren't many London teams in Europe at the end of the 70's/early 80's which is when the casual scene kicked off - largely due to being able to obtain Italian/Spanish sportswear on the continent - so in short, as far as my memory serves me (and I was shooting up sulphate at the time) the scousers were the first team in England to wear the tennis wear. It seemed to spread south after a season up north. I've always admired Liverpool and Manchester boys for their style and swagger, and while I may seem only interested in London films, it's simply because that's all I know. You don't have to be a genius to work out several cool styles and movements have been started in Liverpool or Manchester. Enough said.
What would you say is your most prized fashion items?
Nowadays I dress like a middle aged camp Italian on the Riviera! I can't get away with wearing Fila Terrinda's (which was definitely my most prized item from the 80's) and adidas Forest Hills etc, so I play with Loro Piana and Hermes as labels. Although you'll never see me in any other t-shirt than a Ralph Lauren, purely for great pastel shades and durability.
There is a worry amongst a few casual purists that a re-make of such an iconic film such as 'The Firm' will not do the original justice. Is this a remake for a remakes sake or do you feel the original lacked something?
There are several reasons for me making 'The Firm'. Firstly, it's important to stress that my film is an adaptation, not so much a remake. To simply remake 'The Firm', or any other great film for that matter, would be cynical unless there was another story to be told, a new angle to be exposed, or a new experience to be had - and that's exactly what I've done. The rivalry between Bex and the Yeti still exists as it did in the original, but it sits behind the story of Dom (who only plays a small part in the original) who is a young wannabe casual, and is drawn into the world of Bex and The Firm. He's a dresser and is as much into the fashion as the idea of running with the firm and fighting, and at the centre of the film is his relationship with Bex. I would tell you more, but I'd be giving the film away! Point is, it's very different from the original - it's set in or around 1984 and I made the story personal to me in so far as it's about casuals and the experience of joining a gang, whereas the original isn't. My film is very much an authentic celebration of the early 80's casual era, something that I haven't yet seen in a film. The film is drenched in big firms, soul and jazz funk music, and of course more 80's sports fashion that you'd see in Lilywhites! It's also worth mentioning that the original film was the sole reason I got into making films. I literally saw it on TV in 89, had an epiphany and decided I wanted to make films. The next week I was running around Soho trying to get a job as a tea boy on film sets, so the film clearly had a big impact on me. It was the first film I'd ever seen that spoke to me in a vernacular I knew, about people I knew and places I knew. It was fucking powerful. I really think I had another and equally interesting story to tell. See it for yourself and you can judge it against the original. Of course some purists will condemn it before they've seen it, but I'm more than proud of it.
Finally, some casuals have said that your long-standing relationship with Danny Dyer and Tamer Hassan has in many ways diluted your credibility. Many see Dyer in particular becoming a caricature of himself. How do you respond to those criticisms?
This is a tricky question to answer - but a very valid one, and I think the answer lies in the fact that most of the cast in 'The Firm' have never been in front of a camera before. There is no Dyer in 'The Firm'. Danny and I made my first film together, and since then he has become a friend and something of a talisman for me. I have no control over what he chooses to do away from me work-wise, he's his own man. I was asked to get involved with 'The Real Football Factories' and I said no straight away. I see myself as a purist, and for me, 'The Real Football Factories' was a dilution of a brand I had created. Ultimately I want to be remembered as the one who didn't sell out, but as we all know, the more success you have, the harder that becomes. Danny has a family and a mortgage so he has to pay the bills, and there are so few films being made in Britain that they won't pay the bills alone. I understand why he's gone down that road, but in truth I wish he hadn't, and he knows that. I've never hidden my feelings about some of his choices. For 'The Firm' I knew I had to change direction, and I spoke about it with Danny and told him I was moving on. I know it sounds a bit strong, but after several years of working together, we developed a bond that goes beyond just a job. 'The Firm' has a fresh and exciting cast, mostly never seen before, and to be honest, it's the best decision I could have made for the film. Hopefully, people will watch the film with no baggage or preconceptions. I've always believed Danny is a talented actor, otherwise I wouldn't have put him in my first four films. It would be great to see him really challenged in future roles, but people seem to keep casting him in similar parts or keep wanting him to play roles from our previous films. Anyway, fuck all that - this is about 'The Firm' - a film that represents a forgotten sub culture, an era, a revered tribe, a revolution, friendships, fashion, music, bullying, rivalry, warfare and much much more - I truly think 'The Firm' is my best film and I hope you do too.
FootballCasual.com would like to thank Nick for taking the time to talk with us.
Thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule to answer a few questions Nick. Like me you grew up in South East London, what first brought your attention to the subculture commonly known as 'casual' and what got you hooked?
The first time I saw someone dressed in casual wear was around 1983, when I was no more than 13 years old, sitting round the flats in Thames Street which is on the Greenwich/Deptford border. One of the older boys (now sadly dead) walked up smoking a joint and wearing a full electric blue Ellesse tracksuit, a deerstalker hat and a pair of Diadora borg elites. He looked the bollocks and I so wanted to be like him. He went to Millwall and was one of the chaps. From then on it became an obsession for me. I saw more and more boys at football wearing Italian sportswear (Fila, Sergio Tacchini and so on) - and finally I got a Lacoste t-shirt and that's were it started - I never looked back!You've written and directed a number of cult films such as 'Goodbye Charlie Bright', 'The Football Factory', 'The Business' and 'Outlaw' - all of which have some link to the football scene. How much of an influence do you think football and terrace fashion for that matter, has on the working classes both now and say 25 years ago?
Certainly all of my film work has been influenced by the casual/terrace/football culture. I was an adolescent at the time of the casuals and I've always believed that your teenage years are when you are most receptive to cultural/fashion influences. I remember men in their 20's telling me I looked like a fucking idiot in Fila BJ shorts and t-shirts when I was 14 or 15, and that's because in their teens they'd worn flares and big collared shirts, so they couldn't see beyond what had influenced them. You can only really understand that in retrospect because when you're in the middle of a revolution (which is what I thought the casual movement was), you can't imagine there's an other way of life. Clearly the casual clothing and general 80's fashion had a huge impact on my film-making as it's now appeared in two of my films. 'The Business' being the first were it was simply the fashion of the time for the main character Frankie, and now with 'The Firm' where the clothes are almost a driving force behind part of the film, where having the right clothes is an intrinsic part of the story. Fashion plays a part in all my films (apart from 'Outlaw'), as I'm very militant about having the right clothes for the era/mood of the film. Incidentally, I think men's fashion for the working classes/terrace fans, has lost it's way a bit in the past few years. I loved the early Stone Island and CP Company stuff, but it all seems a bit similar to me now. There was a time where fashion was about standing out and making a statement - now it seems about blending in and not being noticed. It's probably just my age!It's obvious you have a passion for the tennis chic sportswear era of casual culture, is this for you a historical fashion interest or were you just as passionate in your youth?
Tennis wear chic was an absolute passion when I was a teenager. It's not something I picked up later in life, and then became a retrospective fan. For me it was a way of life. I could bore you with a very long story about how I got my first Lacoste t-shirt (red and white stripes), but it's a whole new interview! Suffice to say I was deep into the whole thing between 82 and 85. Me and my mates were always buzzing around the west end, stealing gear out of Nick-Nacks, Lilywhites and Olympus etc. We lived and breathed Fila, Tacchini, Ellesse, Pringle, Lyle & Scott, Diadora (I could go on forever!). When we were kids you simply had to have the right clobber. You were a pikey if you didn't - end of.It's commonly accepted that Londoners were late to the casual scene, but many Londoners hold the belief that it was them that took the look forward from Peter Storm cagoules and adidas trainers. What's your view on how the scene developed in London in the early 80's?
This is subjective because as I said earlier, everyone who's involved in a revolution can't see beyond their point of view - nothing exists beyond the wall. But it's fair to say, that although Londoners (me included) thought they were the centre of the universe, there weren't many London teams in Europe at the end of the 70's/early 80's which is when the casual scene kicked off - largely due to being able to obtain Italian/Spanish sportswear on the continent - so in short, as far as my memory serves me (and I was shooting up sulphate at the time) the scousers were the first team in England to wear the tennis wear. It seemed to spread south after a season up north. I've always admired Liverpool and Manchester boys for their style and swagger, and while I may seem only interested in London films, it's simply because that's all I know. You don't have to be a genius to work out several cool styles and movements have been started in Liverpool or Manchester. Enough said.
What would you say is your most prized fashion items?
Nowadays I dress like a middle aged camp Italian on the Riviera! I can't get away with wearing Fila Terrinda's (which was definitely my most prized item from the 80's) and adidas Forest Hills etc, so I play with Loro Piana and Hermes as labels. Although you'll never see me in any other t-shirt than a Ralph Lauren, purely for great pastel shades and durability.There is a worry amongst a few casual purists that a re-make of such an iconic film such as 'The Firm' will not do the original justice. Is this a remake for a remakes sake or do you feel the original lacked something?
There are several reasons for me making 'The Firm'. Firstly, it's important to stress that my film is an adaptation, not so much a remake. To simply remake 'The Firm', or any other great film for that matter, would be cynical unless there was another story to be told, a new angle to be exposed, or a new experience to be had - and that's exactly what I've done. The rivalry between Bex and the Yeti still exists as it did in the original, but it sits behind the story of Dom (who only plays a small part in the original) who is a young wannabe casual, and is drawn into the world of Bex and The Firm. He's a dresser and is as much into the fashion as the idea of running with the firm and fighting, and at the centre of the film is his relationship with Bex. I would tell you more, but I'd be giving the film away! Point is, it's very different from the original - it's set in or around 1984 and I made the story personal to me in so far as it's about casuals and the experience of joining a gang, whereas the original isn't. My film is very much an authentic celebration of the early 80's casual era, something that I haven't yet seen in a film. The film is drenched in big firms, soul and jazz funk music, and of course more 80's sports fashion that you'd see in Lilywhites! It's also worth mentioning that the original film was the sole reason I got into making films. I literally saw it on TV in 89, had an epiphany and decided I wanted to make films. The next week I was running around Soho trying to get a job as a tea boy on film sets, so the film clearly had a big impact on me. It was the first film I'd ever seen that spoke to me in a vernacular I knew, about people I knew and places I knew. It was fucking powerful. I really think I had another and equally interesting story to tell. See it for yourself and you can judge it against the original. Of course some purists will condemn it before they've seen it, but I'm more than proud of it.Finally, some casuals have said that your long-standing relationship with Danny Dyer and Tamer Hassan has in many ways diluted your credibility. Many see Dyer in particular becoming a caricature of himself. How do you respond to those criticisms?
This is a tricky question to answer - but a very valid one, and I think the answer lies in the fact that most of the cast in 'The Firm' have never been in front of a camera before. There is no Dyer in 'The Firm'. Danny and I made my first film together, and since then he has become a friend and something of a talisman for me. I have no control over what he chooses to do away from me work-wise, he's his own man. I was asked to get involved with 'The Real Football Factories' and I said no straight away. I see myself as a purist, and for me, 'The Real Football Factories' was a dilution of a brand I had created. Ultimately I want to be remembered as the one who didn't sell out, but as we all know, the more success you have, the harder that becomes. Danny has a family and a mortgage so he has to pay the bills, and there are so few films being made in Britain that they won't pay the bills alone. I understand why he's gone down that road, but in truth I wish he hadn't, and he knows that. I've never hidden my feelings about some of his choices. For 'The Firm' I knew I had to change direction, and I spoke about it with Danny and told him I was moving on. I know it sounds a bit strong, but after several years of working together, we developed a bond that goes beyond just a job. 'The Firm' has a fresh and exciting cast, mostly never seen before, and to be honest, it's the best decision I could have made for the film. Hopefully, people will watch the film with no baggage or preconceptions. I've always believed Danny is a talented actor, otherwise I wouldn't have put him in my first four films. It would be great to see him really challenged in future roles, but people seem to keep casting him in similar parts or keep wanting him to play roles from our previous films. Anyway, fuck all that - this is about 'The Firm' - a film that represents a forgotten sub culture, an era, a revered tribe, a revolution, friendships, fashion, music, bullying, rivalry, warfare and much much more - I truly think 'The Firm' is my best film and I hope you do too.FootballCasual.com would like to thank Nick for taking the time to talk with us.